Join us for our first SEO career day episode as Ben Shapiro and John Lincoln, Co-Founder and CEO of Ignite Visibility and the 2017 Search Marketer of the year share’s his experience as a search marketer and his growth through the industry. This is a great opportunity for any digital marketer looking for career insights from an industry leader.
Ben: Welcome to career day on the Voices of Search Podcast. Today we’re going to learn about the skills accumulated and the lessons learned from a great SEO throughout the various stops on his career. Joining us for career day is an SEO who was recently named the Search Marketer of the year by Search Engine Land. John Lincoln is the co-founder and CEO of Ignite Visibility which is a digital marketing agency that offers a suite of services including earned and paid media campaign optimization, website development and creative design. Prior to his role leading Ignite Visibility John’s also a teacher at UC San Diego and prior to his current roles John was a columnist for Ink and Entrepreneur Magazine and also an SEO consultant.
Ben: Before we get started with our conversation with John, I want to remind you that this podcast is brought to you by the marketing team at Searchmetrics. We are an SEO and content marketing platform that helps enterprise scale businesses monitor their online presence and make data driven decisions. To support you, our loyal podcast listeners we’re offering a complimentary digital diagnostic where a member of our digital strategies group will provide you with a consultation that will review your website, your content and your SEO strategies and tell you how they can all be optimized.
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Ben: Okay here’s our interview with co-founder and CEO of Ignite Visibility, John Lincoln. John welcome to the Voices of Search Podcast.
John: Hey thanks so much for having me, I’m excited to be here.
Ben: It’s great to have you here. It’s an exciting time for us, this is the first time we’re doing a career day episode, and I’m excited to be kicking it off with the search engine marketer of the year. Before we talk about your career tell us about what it takes and what is it like to be named the search marketer of the year.
John: Yeah, absolutely. So, Search Marketer of the Year is an award given by a Search Engine Land and it’s a really cool award, it’s great that search engine land has these awards that they do for our industry. For search engine optimization and for digital marketing and it’s just we all work so hard it’s a multi-billion dollar industry and there’s a lot that goes into it. That is one of their awards. It’s really just an award for somebody who has achieved something somewhat remarkable in the industry and there’s been a lot of other people that have won it as well.
John: I won it in 2017 and I think a big part of that was because I created SEO the movie which was a documentary film where we got all of these really smart people who have been doing SEO longer than I have. Danny Sullivan and Barry Schwartz and quite a few others together and we created this very cool documentary and then in addition to that I’ve been an SEO consultant and doing digital on some level for about 16 years. I’ve been a director at a couple other agencies before starting Ignite Visibility six years ago. We’re a two time 5,000 customer company now and we’re ranked as the top company on Clutch and stuff like that. It was a lot of things coming together but really in a nutshell, you just basically put together a submission for yourself, pitch yourself to be search marketer of the year, male or female, there’s two categories and hope you win and tell them why you should win and there’s some criteria around that as well.
Ben: Well I’m excited for you, I’m excited to have you as the first guest on our career day segment. I want to talk to you about your career path. Let’s start off in the beginning and talk about how you got into SEO. What way your foyer into this industry?
John: Yeah, I always have been really, really excited about business and entrepreneurialism and just starting a company. So that led me into digital marketing a little bit but really I was at this magazine. It was call Biz San Diego magazine which is no longer around and this was back in 2006, 2007 and they hired me on to be an intern. I worked my way up to being a director of online communications there managing quite a few people at a very young age. I was working and managing the online side and we had to find a way to get traffic. What happened is I was publishing about an article a week. I was realizing that there wasn’t much traffic coming in and then I started trying to go after a couple key words I wanted that article to write for. Then I realized when I started optimizing it for things around news I would get a big spike. So if it was relevant to the news I’d get a big spike in traffic. Then after that I started realizing that there were certain terms that were evergreen content.
John: Things that would be around for a while and got in that way and then after I did that for a while I realized that if I did more than one article a week, if I did two or three and then eventually before I knew it I was doing 10 articles a day and optimizing every single one of them and we were scaling this little San Diego publication like crazy and getting them 10s of thousands of visitors a month. That got me really excited and that was a while ago.
John: Since then, I mean I’ve been doing similar stuff but tweaking it and getting more technical and international and local and all of that. So it’s kind of snowballed into my career today.
Ben: That’s interesting. So you had some early success in SEO as the industry was still developing and it sounds like some of the things that you realized were what are the differences in the types of content, focusing on news content and evergreen you built a couple strategies around how to get those and also the more content you publish and the more related it is that kind of raises the water level so the rising tide was is all boats. As you moved from your early career into some of your other experiences you moved away from working at the Biz San Diego Magazine into a more agency role. Tell me a little bit more about what drove you into the agency space.
John: Yeah so at that magazine I was finishing up my MBA, worked at that magazine and there I really developed this whole bottle for SEO. As more of the publishing side you create a bunch of content, you optimize it, you scale it, you share it through social, that was right when Twitter came out. You also sent out that same content through email, that developed spot leadership, using everything to create content and then promote it. Create content, promote it, right. That’s when AdWords was kind of really starting to get big. Using all those things together.
John: So develop this digital marketing program there and we were pretty darn successful. Then what happened is and the reason that company’s not around, it was a scary time in for anybody listening recessions are a big deal. The recession hit and that company ended up being no longer around and I jumped to become a marketing manager from there. I became a marketing manager at this Telecom company, and I stayed there for a year and I was in charge of their SCM, I was in charge of their SEO, I was in charge of their social media, their email marketing, kind of similar stuff. Starting to do studies, kind of cool PR stuff, a lot of landing page testing, getting into conversion rate optimization, all that really fun stuff and did that for a year and had a lot of fun. It was you out here in San Diego so I had the chance to surf a little bit and work a little bit.
John: Then kind of reached a point there where … I’m a very super motivated guy and I’m sure a lot of people listening to this podcast are too, I just wanted to keep growing. Then I took a director role at an agency that was a pretty decent size agency and a pretty well, no one. I just wanted to make more of an impact and that’s why I love agencies. You get to work with so many clients at once, you get to see so many different types of businesses, meet all these different people, it’s just a blast. There’s usually a nice, youthful energy. High pace and that really fit my personality.
John: It doesn’t fit everybody’s personality but for me it couldn’t be more fun. I’ve been in agencies ever since. That was back in around 2010 so I’ve been in agencies for eight years now.
Ben: So, it’s interesting to me that you started off developing a set of skills based around SEO and content production as well and then when you moved into the agency side it sounds like you had a broad set of experience that wasn’t just focused on SEO. Am I getting this right? Sounds like you worked on multiple other marketing’s or is SEO always been the primary driver of your career?
John: No, SEO has definitely not been. I was really general marketing. A business MBA kind of guy and then general marketing and then moved in digital … I was in digital since there was digital so I’ve got a lot of experience in that but SEO even though I was hired to be a director of SEO at an SEO company I was not super technical SEO when I started but what I did do is I studied technical SEO every day and every night for six months and I would … I had a two hour commute to work and a two hour commute back. I would listen to every single blog post on SEO, I would play a blog post through an audio thing that I had on my phone and I taught myself everything that you could learn about technical SEO and then I got really into it after that.
Ben: Okay so you’re developing your skills as an SEO sort of on the fly at learning the technical side. Talk to me a little bit about … you mentioned the pace of an agency was something you liked. You went from being an in-house SEO … I guess your title was the director of online communications, but you were doing SEO to being an agency. What do you see is the difference between the responsibilities and the work that you’re doing, contrasting being in house and then being at an agency.
John: That’s a great question. First, I think it’s important to point out that for SEO there’s a lot of different field in SEO. There’s international, there’s a content marketing side which I was doing more of before I became a director then I got really into technical SEO for large enterprise websites like sites with hundreds of millions of visitors a month and then there’s local SEO as well and there’s lead generation, there’s eCommerce, there’s news, there’s branding and then there’s FAQ sites. So, there’s a lot of different types of SEO.
John: You asked me how different my job as a marketing manager was opposed to being in an agency and what the roles were like. So the difference is when I was in house I was working on the same website all day. The same couple sites, they had a few sites and that is good in some ways because you get to just focus 100% on one thing but I have to tell you, for me personally I was pretty bored. I really was pretty bored and so it wasn’t a great fit for me. Now on the other side, on the agency side I would work on between eight and 30 different clients. That’s a pretty good amount but I was learning so much from all the different sites. I was able to bring things from different industries to other industries. I was able to use innovative strategies across a variety of different business principles, I learned about eCommerce, legion, news, I was working with huge well known clients. Big ones like FOX and USA Today all the way down to smaller clients so there’s a huge difference and when you’re in an agency and you’re just, just in a department you’re going to focus mostly on what that department does.
John: Since I was the head of SEO in social media I did more of that than when I was at in house, when I was also responsible for a lot of SCM and conversion rate optimization and email marketing. That’s kind of the difference but I do think that even if you are in an agency it’s very important you understand all the different channels that contribute to digital and you can speak to those. But the day to day is much more general. You wear all the different hats in house usually especially at a business between five and 20 million dollars. When it gets bigger you get more resources. Then in an agency you’re more specific but working with more clients.
Ben: Yeah it seems to me that the challenge going from being in house you mentioned you’re working on one site, you’re going really deep into the details and you’re kind of familiar with everything happening with one or a couple of properties as opposed to an agency you get more reps and you get more exposure to different types of businesses and different types of brands. How much is it a challenge to keep all of the various brands and needs separate and then keep track of everything that’s going on? Tell me a little about managing multiple clients when you’re working with a heavy agency workload.
John: Yeah so our company Ignite Visibility we have one of the lowest client to employee ratios in the industry so we’re really well staffed and that’s a huge differentiator for us but if you got to the wrong agency you could have 100 clients, you could have 50 clients if you deal with the same size of clients that we have here and you go to one of our competitors or somebody else you probably would have 50 to 100% more clients and me as coming from the account manager background I really make sure that doesn’t happen to staff here and they’re not overloaded. You got to watch out for that. I’ll give you a tip, it’s really important to do things like reach out to every client every day, let them know that you’re working on their stuff and just give them a quick update. Make a list of things that you have so a list and then just go down and one, two, three, four, five, what are the priorities I’m working on today. You’ve got to have great communication, you’ve got to be willing to set up meetings on your own even if you’re not a director.
John: There’s a lot that goes into that and it can be kind of fast pace but on the other end if you’re on an agency and you’re in the premium, premium market for example if you have a million-dollar client you might only be working on that client. It really matters how big the clients are. For example, if you have a million dollar client you’re probably just working on that. If you have a $100,000 client, you’re probably going to be on somewhere between five or 20 depending on the agency and if its’ $1,000 a month or a $500 a month client you’re going to be on 100 of them probably.
John: There’s all different systems for the different levels of the market that you’re serving. For the people listening to this who are interested in careers that’s really important. The agency that you want to work at should relate to the size of the market you want to work in. If you’re interviewing a job and they tell you you’re going to be on 100 clients or 50 clients that means that you’re going to be in lower market. There’s nothing wrong with that, it just means you’re going to be working with smaller businesses. There’s some great businesses that serve the lower market. There’s nothing wrong with that.
John: If you’re on five to 25 clients or something like that you’re probably going to be more mid-market and then premium is you’re on just one client. You’re just working on Nike, for example. You’re on a 15 person team. That’s how all those things break down and it’s important for people to understand that I think.
Ben: Yeah absolutely. I think that understanding the systems and understanding what type of workload you’re going to have is important for making sure that you can keep everything organized. I also think as SEO’s are considering their career pathing if you want broad exposure to many different types of business you can go work down market and get lots of reps. If you want to be specialized and work on one specific fascist of SEO go premium and get deep with a major client. That’s something for people that are in the agency world consider in terms of how to develop their career.
Ben: Somewhere along the line as you were working in an agency, I noticed that you started becoming a columnist for multiple different properties. I mentioned that you were a columnist for Ink Magazine, Entrepreneur, you’ve done some writing for Search Engine Land, Marketing Land. Talk to me about managing the agency workload and then why did you decide to become an author and a content creator outside of your let’s call it your day job.
John: Yeah I love this stuff. For me it’s just about being an expert in the field and enjoying the field. I believe digital marketing is the perfect mix of analytics and creativity. It’s the way that I contribute. What happened is I read this book by Tony Robbins back when I was 25 and kind of plotted which … I really recommend you guys also check out … it’s basically a book that allows you to kind of plot your life and how you’re going to do things in your life. It’s called “Awaken the Giant Within”. It’s by Tony Robbins and there’s also another really good one called “The Power to Shape Your Destiny”. Those two are amazing and I would recommend you check out both of them. Tony Robbins is a client of ours and a really important client. I absolutely love his stuff.
John: I was 25 and I read this book. It helped me define my purpose which is to help other people through digital marketing and I stayed focused on that through business and it’s been a great thing and I’m still happy I made that decision today. I stayed very, very focused in it. I basically decided at that time I’m going to write a book, I’m going to make a movie, I’m going to start a business, and then some other personal stuff as well. I plotted it all out with a timeline. I did it so I started really putting myself out there. I decided I wasn’t going to hold back. I decided I wasn’t going to care what people think. I wasn’t going to be afraid and back then, even then and even when I was at this other Telecom company where I was a marketing manager I really started blogging.
John: I realized the power of blogging and putting myself out there in content creation and I really been doing that ever since. I wrote this book called, “Digital Influencer”. Basically what it allows you to do is find out how to be an influencer in your industry. I’m not the biggest guy in digital marketing or anything like that, I know that` but I have been able to get a decent following and published just a ton of content so I’m a writer for Ink, and Entrepreneur and I got an article on Forbes yesterday and Search Engine Land and Marketing Land and our YouTube’s got 20,000 followers from the videos we do. I’ve got a book and two movies out and I think when you do that you bring value to the world in some ways and then you also get to attract clients and great employees to work with. It’s just something that I really enjoy so I recommend anybody listening to this start your own site. Start a blog, start a social media and just kind of get going in your industry. Start putting stuff out there and start learning your voice and just know that over time you’re going to get better and better and it’s eventually going to lead to something. If anything, at least it just helps you work things out in your mind as far as how you want to work with clients and things you want to recommend and stuff like that.
Ben: I understand the point of creating your own personal brand and honing your voice and creating content. What in interested in hearing about the publications that you work on are high profile, well trafficked publications. How did you start the relationships to be able to get published in Entrepreneur, Ink, Forbes, are you doing cold outreach to editors or networking? What’s the relationship and process look like there to get into some of those publications?
John: A lot of people ask me that. That’s a tricky one. Here’s what you got to do. You got to start somewhere. I started out with my own blog and then I found a couple other places that would let me guest blog and started building a portfolio, started growing a social following and then eventually I was big enough for Search Engine Land. That was in 2010. Then Search Engine Land led to me being able to write at the next place and the next place and the next place as far as I could pitch them, I could show them what I’ve done and then they would allow me to get in. But these big publications, I mean they are total gatekeepers.
John: I’ll tell you a funny story. I was pitching one of the publications. It was Entrepreneur and I had really, really wanted to write for them. The editor says, you’re not good enough, I don’t think … I’m a fine writer, I’m just as good as the next guy right but they didn’t want me to write their type of thing and so I eventually found something that he was really interested in, he was really interested in American Ninja Warrior and i sent him a gift for American Ninja Warrior and he really, really appreciated it and it helped us develop a relationship. He had written an article on American Ninja Warrior and then he got a water bottle on it, American Ninja Warrior that I had sent him and then that we kind of hit it off from there.
John: So sometimes with these editors you really got to put yourself in their shoes. They are getting bombarded by thousands of people a day who want to write. They do not want to pay attention to you, they are super busy. I was an editor before, I couldn’t … and it was a very small magazine and I couldn’t keep the PR people away just to get work done. So the pitch is really important and then follow up and then showing you really care and doing something above and beyond would make a big difference to write for some of those publications.
John: Long story short you’ve got to pitch them and you got to do something that’s unique.
Ben: Never underestimate the value of the well branded water bottle.
John: Never do it. Absolutely not, yeah.
Ben: Go pro tip there. At some point you’re working at an agency, you’re a columnist, you’ve also become a teacher at UC San Diego, and started your own agency. Talk to me about the timeline there and what are you doing today?
John: Yeah so I started Ignite Visibility back in 2013 and we did it with a real clear mission to basically offer best in class services in the industry and then use our profits to reinvest in client success, employee success and the community. So all those three things work together. Over the last now going on six years we’ve been a two time Ink 5,000 company for the last two years and we should be again this year. We’ve grown our revenues a lot, and we’re really getting into … we’re near a 10 million dollar company but for me it’s just … I just want to keep doing amazing work for clients, be proud of what we’re doing here, be experts in the field, be incredibly innovative and just keep bringing passion to work every day and now I have so much love for all of our employees and our clients and everything. I’m just very happy to be what I’m doing right now. And just living this life and I think growth will come as a result of us just enjoying what we’re doing.
John: No major plans that’s anything crazy. I do have a new book coming out very soon. That’s going to be on some really cool digital marketing stuff on forecast and things like that so that’d be something to keep an eye out for.
Ben: So as you moved on from working at and agency to founding an agency I’m interested in hearing about what the experience like was going from being a functional area operator doing client management to being the head honcho. How did you make the transition from SEO operator to account manager to agency owner and just give us your perspective on that career path and what other SEO’s need to know if they’re trying to follow a similar career path?
John: That’s a really good question. I would say it’s really, really, really hard. I know a lot of people who have failed at it. In fact, tons of people who are really smart, who I highly respect who have not been able to pull it off for one reason or another. I would give a lot of credit to my business partner Chris who is … you know I’m an MBA, he’s a JD and he really knew the business wide a lot like the HR stuff and accounting and offend sales and stuff like that is not really my thing. I’m okay at it but he’s better. So the two of us working together that was really good. I will say the first two years of starting a business are really trying. You have to get clients, you have to maintain your current clients, you have to setting up all this invoicing stuff you don’t even think about. You go from what would be a just a really easy job and when you’re working in a field and having a blast at least for me working with some of the biggest clients and just doing great work to starting at ground zero from home. I had a puppy in a laundry basket next to me while I’m taking client calls and trying not to have him bark and you don’t know when your next paychecks coming in or even if you’re going to get one and all that.
John: The good news is, is that I’m pretty good at what I do and so is he and I had a really good plan for setting up a meeting every day, for doing outreach, people were pretty regularly wanting to work with me anyways back then so people would come to me who needed stuff and basically I just started with one client who was a family friend, $2,500 a month and I worked so hard on that client and made sure that he had a huge return. He was up over 400% year over year the first year and he’s been up 50% year over year every year since our first year and he’s still currently a client and one of our biggest clients.
John: When you start on your own you’ve got to do great work, you’ve got to build a portfolio, you’re starting from scratch, it’s going to be a long haul and it’s going to be a lot of work and you really have to have the right energy and mentality to want to do it and you’ve got to have stamina too. Those are a couple things to think about if you really do want to try to start an agency. I would say it’s more competitive now than it’s been just because a lot of people are doing it. But the agencies that are bigger and experts and kind of a mid-market are the ones I think a lot more clients are going to. I think they’re kind of starting to step away from the free-lancer one, two-person thing. It might be even harder now today than it was when I started unfortunately.
Ben: Yeah I think the big takeaway for me listening to your story both in terms of how you worked your way into being a columnist for some of the publications that you write for and also your approach to developing your client list and the nation stages of running your agency is cultivating the relationships that are around you is really important. As you take over the mantle of leadership when you’re running your own agency there’s a lot that you need to do outside of the SEO work and a lot of that has to do with building and maintaining relationship and for in house marketers that’s something you have to do as well. You’re working with your cross functional partners but in your case you’ve got to hit the pavement and build the relationships.
Ben: You start with the people that are closest to you and you just find a way to meet more people and sign more clients and continue to focus on driving excellent results but just speaking from personal experience when you’re branching out on your own start with the people that you have the closest relationship with as your business development targets and they will lead you towards the direction you should be headed.
John: Yeah, that was really well said. I couldn’t agree with you more and I would imagine you’ve got some great experience there too. You start with friends and family, you start marketing to your friends and family, they’re the ones that are in your email list and you just kind of grow from there. Everything just … business is all about scale. So find out what’s working and then scale it in a manageable way and that’s a great point.
Ben: Yeah well, I appreciate it. So, as you look back on your career tell us what advice you have for some of the younger SEO’s who might want to head down the career path of starting their own agency. What’s the headline that they need to hear to understand some of the challenges you faced and how to overcome them?
John: If you want to start your own agency you need to be prepared to just work incredibly hard. I would say don’t do it until you’re ready. I think one of the biggest things that I’ve seen is that people will try to do it before they’re ready. You really need some good experience to even think about doing something like that. You need a prospect to look at you as being an older person who’s credible. Age isn’t everything or anything like that but somewhat established. You need to look like you have your stuff together and so I guess the biggest thing I would say is be happy where you’re at and get as much experience as you can and I would also say the grass is not always greener if you start your own agency. It’s definitely not. There’s a lot of huge challenges that come along with it but if you do want to start it and once you have enough experience and once you feel like you’re good and you understand the business side the first thing you need to do is create a business plan.
John: How are you going to be different than everybody else out there in the market? There’s a lot of people in the market. Are you going to be web deb? If you are going to be web deb are you going to be Shopify or are you going to be WordPress are you going to be Illusion, are you going to be big commerce are you going to be SEO, are you going to be SEO or are you going to be mid-market, you going to be premium market, are you going to be low market, are you going to be local, are you going to be international, are you going to be news, are you going to be branding, what type of clients are you going to go after, how are you going to differentiate yourself? After that how are you going to generate business? How much business are you going to generate on a certain basis? What are your projections look like? Then once you put together a real business model that has based on numbers and how much business you think you can generate take a hard look at it and then see if that matches the amount of income that you need to survive for your first year, second year, third year as the business grows.
John: For me I didn’t take any income at all for my business for the first six months. So I didn’t pay myself anything and that’s a big deal. I saved up money, I didn’t take out any money, I’d been saving money for a long time so that I could do it. There’s a lot that goes into it and I don’t think a lot of people think about that. You really … planning is really important if you’re going to make that leap but I don’t want to discourage anybody from doing it because I think entrepreneurial spirit is an awesome thing and that’s what our amazing country is built on so if that is a dream that you have do it at some point in your life just make sure it’s the right time.
Ben: I think that’s great advice. I think that hearing about your experience working at agencies, getting multiple reps understanding multiple different parts of digital marketing not specifically just SEO has helped you understand what it takes to manage a large client list and also has given you the credibility to be able to branch out on your own and probably the network as well. I think that there’s definitely a correlational to being at that agency, spending your time building the network, learning multiple skills that set you up for success and also you mentioned the planning that you did as well. Having a focus and a direction as well to help differentiate yourself.
John: 100% and just I mean digital is huge. There’s email, there’s pay, there’s social, there’s chat box, there’s all kinds-
John: … there’s podcast. Podcast … there’s a path that’s growing in fact. Podcast are the fastest growing out of all of them. So, there’s podcast, there’s video, and where’s the market going to be five years from now? That’s another thing to think about.
Ben: Voice search.
John: Voice search. I’m doing a presentation on voice search up in San Francisco in three weeks and that’s the biggest thing. Applications, so there’s a lot that you need to think about when starting a business. Where do you fit in that market, the best news is for everybody is that digital is growing 90% of marketers are going to be bringing more money to digital form offline to online and the industry is huge now. There’s just so many different ways to attack it, you got to find the right way.
Ben: Yeah, I think that also gets down to who you are, what your skill sets are. There’s a lot of green grass in front of us, there’s a lot of opportunity, there’s also a lot of risk when you’re taking on your own venture. Last question for you John, you mentioned that you have a movie that you’re launching a book. Tell us a little bit about the things that you have going on and if anybody wants to follow you what are the right places where they can look for your content?
John: Yeah, I send out a newsletter every single Thursday that’s all of the great stuff that I’m creating every week. It’s over all the digital marketing news, it’s also published on YouTube. I do a couple classes on YouTube a week and that’s growing quite a bit and then the Ignite Visibility blog and then just kind of around the web. I do have a new book coming out. It’s going to be I think one of the cooler things that … definitely the coolest thing I’ve done and it’s about really where the whole industry is headed and I can’t give it all away right now but keep an eye out for on the Ignite blog, and just kind of around the web and you’ll find out more about it there but other than that I’ll just be here at Ignite Visibility doing my thing trying to get some results for clients and working with our great employees.
Ben: Awesome well John thank you so much for being our guest, for helping us launch the career day series. I appreciate you coming on the show.
John: Awesome thanks Benjamin. Have a great day.
Ben: That wraps up this episode of The Voices of Search Podcast. Thank you for listening to my conversation with John Lincoln the co-founder and CEO of Ignite Visibility. If you’d like to learn more about John you can find a link to his LinkedIn profile in our show notes. You can send him a tweet @ohnELincoln.. Or you can visit his company’s website at ignitevisibility. If you have any general marketing question or if you want to talk about this podcast you can find my contact information in our show notes or you can always send me a tweet @BenjShap. If you’re interested in learning more about how to use search data to boost your organic traffic, your online visibility or to gain competitive insights head over to searchmetrics.com/diagnostic for your complimentary advisory session with our digital strategies team.
Ben: If you like this podcast, and you want a regular stream of SEO and content marketing insights in your podcast feed hit the subscribe button in your podcast app and we’ll be back in your feed next week.
Ben: Lastly, if you’ve enjoyed this show and you’re feeling generous we’d be honored if you’d leave us a review in the Apple iTunes store or wherever you listen to your podcast. Okay that’s it for today but until next time remember the answers are always in the data.